Tech gremlins aside, we finally got done with our awesome episode with today’s guest, Gabby Bernstein. It was a great conversation, and Gabby’s energy is amazing. We chat about her most recent book which is all about how to stay in that positivity mode. She has written a total of eight books and her latest book is called Super Attractor: Methods for Manifesting a Life Beyond Your Wildest Dreams. She’s a NY Times best-selling author who has worked with Oprah and Dr. Wayne Dyer and it was a massive honor to have her on the show.
Gabby gave us some very practical tools to work through some tough stuff that we are all going through in our personal lives, especially now that we are in this new world. Especially lately, you really need to enjoy the journey, stop focusing on the hustle and grind and enjoy the hard parts and find the benefits of the pain. We chat about some of the methods Gabby uses to help us shift our brains when you are not enjoying the work to shift ourselves back into that place of peace. She also talks about what she refers to as her “Rage on the Page” method and the benefits of listening to a specific playlist while writing. When you’re done listening, be sure to check out our other shows with Chris Krimitsos and Susie Moore and we talk more about how to break down barriers that are limiting your potential.
“Fear really runs our lives. Every choice we make and every experience we have is based on fearful experiences from our history that have defined who we are today. ” - Gabby Bernstein
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We've got a Therapy Session episode for you today with some of our biggest insights from the month of June. Be on the lookout for more Therapy Sessions at the end of each month.
On today’s show, we are chatting with Chris Ross who gave us a total masterclass on sales which is pure gold. Chris is a fellow podcaster and runs TCR Consulting Agency and on today’s show, he does a deep dive into the conversations he has with his potential clients. He really gets into the mental game of sales and the mindset you need to have to approach it for success. He also shared with us his daily routine and his goal to improve each and every day by 1% as well as how to handle objections. It’s less about scripting and more about how your brain needs to be when entering into the conversation.
Chris also has a podcast, aptly name the Win-Win Effect and on that show, you will learn sales at a level you most likely have never heard before, without all the questionable methods but selling with a giving, connecting, and problem-solving intention. You will definitely have some mind shifts and a-ha moments about selling while listening in, so check this one out. And once you are done, be sure to check out the show we referred to with Chris Voss (not to be confused with our guest) and with Marshall Sylver for even more success traits for being a great salesperson.
“If you are really struggling with your sales, and if you want to experience what it feels like to have zero buyer’s remorse, ask them “What, When, Why, How” questions.” - Chris Ross
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Erin Pheil joins us on the show today and she is talking about how to get over mental roadblocks that get you stuck. These can be mindset blocks for anything, whether it be personal or business, and she gave several practical, tactical steps, and exercises that you can do to shatter those beliefs. It’s actually a fun, interesting process and Erin gives us real-world examples that are totally relatable. We even talk about some of our own patterns where Erin guides us through the steps to evaluate where they came from so we can uncover mental roadblocks in our business.
Erin is so amazing, we even booked a follow-up call where she is going to continue to help us work through some of these other patterns. You will love this episode and Erin is going to get you unstuck with some simple questions and quick tactics that do not take long to do. Check out her company, MindFix Group which has some free videos and exercises on there, as well as information about hiring her to get a clear understanding of your current roadblocks and create a map of what a breakthrough would look like to you. Once you have listened, be sure to tune in to our previous shows with David Allen and Dr. Steve Ruden for additional insights on how to rock your productivity and erase those roadblocks that keep holding you back.
“It’s not what’s happening in your life that’s so bad, it’s how you are seeing it and interpreting it that’s making you so miserable. If you can change the lens through which you see the world, everything else can change too.” - Erin Pheil
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Adam Lewis Walker is totally in the zone in this interview and if you’ve ever wanted to get your message out into the world via the TED platform or are curious about the behind the scenes action there, listen in. We talked first, about how to get onto the TEDx stage, which Adam knows all too well. We also talk about how to “Awaken Your Alpha” which is the title of Adam’s TEDx talk as well as his book and podcast. Adam’s focus is all about getting the right mindset, confidence, and everything you need to push your life forward.
With his podcast, he discusses how to get your own TED talks, debunking the process along the way as well as what to do at the talk, how to hone in your message to conform with their time restraints, and what to do once you get the talk. Oftentimes, people don’t do enough to leverage that publicity, so Adam gives us great information on what to do with that talk once you get it. So there’s the mindset stuff plus tactical stuff in this show, a double whammy! After you listen to this episode, be sure to check out our previous shows with Bedros Keuilian and Theo Lucier for even more insights on how to kick ass in life.
“You can overcome your environment, but you’ve got to accept the things you can’t control.” - Adam Lewis Walker
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This is our second show with Mike Filsaime, who has been around forever in the online world and is a true pioneer in the industry. He’s got a new software called Groove Pages, which is an online page builder. The cool thing is that as of this recording, he’s giving it away for free! On today’s show, Mike chats with us about the evolution of this software, how it came to be, as well as the story of his past software platforms such as Kartra. He also gave us a video demonstration of Groove Pages, which you can see by checking out the link below, so be sure to check that out.
While we may have been a little skeptical at the beginning of this conversation, by the end we were totally blown away at the infrastructure behind it. He’s making it awesome for affiliates to promote so you’ll definitely want to listen to this episode and follow along. Once you are done, be sure to check out the previous show we did with Mike as well as our episode where we chatted with Joey Xoto, who shares a similar story about creating a software empire.
“Page builders, webinars, membership platforms, affiliates, and sales platforms are all technology. You have to ask yourself when you go to buy something that you want to invest in - “Do I want to buy my technology from a marketing company or from a technology company?” - Mike Filsaime
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Dean Holland created one of the first coaching programs we went through online and he’s been into creating info products and affiliate marketing for many years. He also has a book about affiliate marketing called The Iceberg Effect which you can get for free. On today’s show, you’ll get to hear Dean’s evolution which ties into a really solid affiliate system and where he also is helping a ton of people selling online.
We reminisce about the early days of affiliate promotions all the way to what is working current day, and how Dean has found the perfect blend for his business of promoting his own offers with other marketer’s products which are a good fit for his audience, as well as some change in thinking over the years in regards to how he markets to the leads he gets. After you get your mind reeling with the possibilities, check out our other episodes with Navid Moazzez and our Therapy Session show we did earlier this year where we discuss more affiliate marketing strategies, what most affiliate marketers are doing wrong, and how to set yourself apart from the rest.
“I just came around to the viewpoint that if there is a complimentary software or something that I know can help my customers...why can't I be the one to provide that solution and everybody wins.” - Dean Holland
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Felicia Pagesh joins us today for a great technical, tactical show where she dives into fun stuff such as conversion optimizations, webinars, landing pages, and other useful techie talk. It’s also a great show for those who love to understand the psychology behind all of this. We also discuss her four-step process for optimizing businesses and her corresponding worksheet that Felicia offers, which you can get for free.
Felicia is so full of ideas she even has a whiteboard on the floor. She is a self-proclaimed ‘hole poker’, looking at things like funnels and seeing where there is room for improvement. After ten+ years of looking at similar things, it’s her superpower to look at a company’s marketing assets and campaigns and zero in on where a major impact can be had as well as offer insight as to how to cover up those keyholes to yield 6-7 figure results.
There are only so many ways to build a funnel, and at this point, Felicia has discovered what most of them are, how long someone will view it, and how they will consume the information. If you enjoy listening to Felicia’s tactics, you’ll love even more branding insight from our shows with Billy Gene Shaw and Steven Sashen.
“You don’t have to create new content, to appeal to people with a new presentation or new concept, what you do is shift your perception around it and realize there are lots of different ways to get that content consumed.” - Felicia Pagesh
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This is a round two episode with Ryan Levesque, and this time around he is talking about his latest book, Choose. Since we are still in a pandemic during the recording of this show, we are talking about how during this quarantine time, Ryan is taking the time to do all these workshops and challenges to help people in a big way to learn about quiz funnels and actually start creating. Ryan also discusses all the benefits of using a quiz plus a ton of case studies with folks who have had great results. He’s going to walk you behind the psychology of quizzes, how to properly structure it, why a quiz can catch attention, and what happens after they take it.
We also talk about the “Why” and the big ideas around how everyone can use these quizzes to ramp up everything in your business. One of Ryan’s own quizzes is adding 50,000 emails to his list every day, and he also will be holding a quiz funnel workshop live on June 15th, 2020. He will work with you on how to build out your own quiz funnel, the questions to ask, how to angle your products and offers and you can see all the details around that at HustleAndFlowchart.com/Quiz. When you are done, be sure to check out our previous show with Ryan where he goes into more detail if you are just starting out as well as our show with Neil Patel for more strategies on how to grow your brand.
“You begin by asking them a series of questions to better understand a little bit more about their situation...Instead of selling in a one size fits all way, you’re putting people into buckets. It’s an incredibly effective strategy for a number of reasons.” - Ryan Levesque
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Today we are talking with Lisa Buyer and how she uses public relations and social media to get more PR. Lisa is a fellow podcaster, has a PR agency, and is also an author. You can get a free digital version of her book, PR Secrets, which is packed full of content and is basically a PR manual. Listen in as you’ll hear how Lisa discusses how to use social media platforms to get press, and how to use your content to get in front of the right media people and groups. You’ll hear all about Facebook groups, LinkedIn, Twitter, even Tik Tok and how to leverage them to get more media representation for your brand.
We chat about some of the things she talks about in her book, where she covers a host of topics such as newsjacking, chatbots, futurists, SEO, visual reporting, podcasting, and what’s new in putting together a press release. This is similar to the way we are approaching our business, in outreach with other publications that can help spread our message, but also as helping them in turn. There’s a lot of content that we all create without thinking about, where someone will share that, feature a quote, or perhaps a podcast you've been on. These are all opportunities for you to build up this library and Lisa will explore how to take advantage of that in a clever way. After you’ve listened be sure to check out our shows with Molly Mahoney and Dennis Yu for even more tips on how to get the most out of your social media strategy.
“It's actually a great time to do ads because ads are less expensive. So combining the superpowers of public relations, SEO, and social, if you can optimize each part of that you're going to get the most reach and visibility, and all eyeballs are on digital right now.” - Lisa Buyer
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Greg is another awesome fellow marketer we got the chance to hang out with at Rich Schefren’s event in Florida, and luckily so as you cannot be around this guy and not have a huge smile on your face. He has amazing energy and ideas and on this show we cover a lot of ground with him. We also held a mastermind at Podfest, and the things Greg talked about there blew everyone’s mind in that room, so we wanted to share that in this show as well.
Listen in as he explains how he got a partnership deal with Entrepeneur.com and his reality show onto Amazon Prime, and how he was able to make those deals with these high profile companies. He’s giving away amazing resources (one that’s so good you need to listen in to discover). Plus, while his business took a huge hit due to COVID, he reinvented his business model to create a brand new six figure business, all within a week. When you’re done listening, you can learn more about branding strategies from our talks with Steven Sashen and Marshall Wayne.
“It’s really hard to build an audience and you have to work your tail off...I look at, if I want to build an audience, who already has my audience that I can tap into and add value to in some way.” - Greg Rollett
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Today’s show is a hybrid episode, as we recently had a 3-hour Livestream on Facebook where we spoke with a variety of guests to discuss affiliate marketing. Pat Flynn was one of our guests and he is one of those folks who teaches and does affiliate marketing in pretty much the same way we do, so the first part of this show is the interview we held with Pat. You’ll hear how he got started, what his process is, how he interacts with his audience, his tips for promoting products and ideas on how you can work with big brands to become known as the main expert for their product.
Then the second half of this episode is where we discuss all the cool things that are working for us right now in our business with affiliate marketing. You’ll hear how we’ve been using Facebook and YouTube lately, tips for making demo videos, and a brand new opportunity that has come up for us, from all of our years of affiliate marketing. There’s a lot of strategies packed in this one, and after you’ve listened, check our previous shows we referenced. We discuss our Unapologetic Affiliate Marketing Strategies and making Affiliate Commissions & KSTs.
“If you consider and keep your headspace in ‘What does this make possible, what can you lean into, what’s that project that you always wanted to start that you can now start?’, then that’s where really amazing things and opportunities can come out of this for you.” - Pat Flynn
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What do Dalai Lama, Terry Crews and Beyonce have in common? It’s today’s return guest, Michael Trainer. Michael co-founded a company called Global Citizen, which puts on some of the biggest events in Central Park, and also has a podcast called Peak Mind, where he talks to some really big name guests. Not a lot of folks have been through this, and on his podcast, Michael has a crazy good Rolodex, so that’s the caliber of people and conversations that he has access to and shares. The hosts are the ones who take all this in and we talk about the collective thoughts he has instilled from talking with the brightest minds.
Today’s show is basically a philosophical talk that transcends into an actionable guide and at the time of our recording, we are chatting about all the big perspective changes we are still going through with the pandemic and the ways to set yourself right mentally. We chat about Michael’s upcoming book which is all about how he managed to get connected with all these big-name people. In addition, we talk about how we should be approaching the current state of affairs today and the mental state that we are all in during these interesting times. If you’re seeking even more habits to heal your mind and body check out our episodes with Brad Spencer and Corona Brady.
“Relationships are the true goal and I think podcasting is one of the great platforms and one of the great ways in which you can actually approach relationship building in this day and age.” - Michael Trainer
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Today we are chatting with Mark Joyner, author of Your Roadmap To Money In 2020: A Cautionary Tale Of Hope. Mark Joyner is known as the father of internet marketing, having created the first pixel tracking, the first funnel, the first ebook publishing company, and the first one-click upsell. All of these terms we talk about in the internet marketing world were essentially invented by Mark. We are talking today about his roadmap which is all about the future, where technology is headed and how to apply it in your business and prepare yourself for the years ahead.
There’s value in all of this and this is a layer where most people are not thinking. If you’re curious enough in what’s happening on a deeper level, it’s going to get you thinking in such a way that will only benefit you. So this is your opportunity to get ahead. Make sure you grab Mark’s report as well since, with everything we talked about in this episode, he goes ten times deeper. When you’re done, be sure to check out our show we recorded with Rich Schefren and Mike Koenigs, on the future of technology and how to keep up with ever-changing trends.
“Part of our existence is that life is warfare, so don't feel bad about having to do this as part of the grand design. I love using the military as a metaphor for many things because it is so apt for so many things.” - Mark Joyner
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This episode is one of those blueprint episodes where once you grab the notes and listen through, you’ll have a business model that you could implement either as a brand new one or model in your own niche if you want. We’re talking with Russ Henneberry, who is the founder of The Clikk.com, a newsletter business with awesome open rates. Listen in as he gives us the play by play that goes into his business and how he’s got his advertising dialed in so he does not need a sales team. Russ has a huge history of content marketing in general and has worked for some really large companies doing a lot of interesting things.
With his newsletter, he sends out a daily email to digital business owners and is able to monetize it through affiliate marketing and sponsorships. Most of his content is essentially curated that he finds around the web that is relevant to his subscribers. We really go into a lot of topics such as how to get better open rates with your emails, how to get better deliverability so they actually make it to the inbox as well as how Russ is able to locate the content to curate. When you’re done, get some more advice about success with newsletters from our conversations with Doberman Dan and MaryEllen Tribby.
“Every business has a couple of metrics that really need to be watched daily. And for us, open rate is that so it comes out that my advertisers are happy with the number of clicks they're getting simply because we're getting enough opens.” - Russ Henneberry
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We loved speaking with Susie Moore, who has such fun energy, and today we talk about her recently released book, called Stop Checking Your Likes. Susie also runs a media company and has been on Oprah and the Today Show. Listen in as she breaks down all these limiting beliefs that a lot of us carry around unknowingly, and has some very simple ideas on how to deal with that because it’s not serving you.
We talk about what it means to “stop checking your likes” as it's something that holds a lot of people back from growing their business since they are scared of what people might think of what they're doing, as the need for approval stops a lot of people from having those necessary conversations. We also touch on some PR strategies and some golden nuggets on how to get in touch with the right people in the media. After the show, make sure to listen to our previous episodes with Kamal Ravikant and Craig Ballantyne, which will give you even more insight on mindset, and how to focus more on yourself while you move towards your goals.
“Are we giving ourselves credit? Are we giving ourselves compassion? are we allowing things to be easy? I think this is the key to everything becoming far simpler in our lives and allowing us to be more successful” - Susie Moore
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Mike Long is a part of internet marketing royalty, and in today’s show, you’ll hear his story of where he started off back in the ’90s, made it through the dotcom burst and made his first million. Mike has learned and adapted through the years and there’s a lot of lessons that we walked through in this episode, which we can also apply now. He was also involved with many well-known milestones in internet marketing history and we talk about how we are going through a crazy time again where the economy is going to bust, and people are realizing that the internet has become vital to our world.
We talk about what you should be leaning into right now, what things are making people lots of money right now, and how this is a masterclass of looking at historical evidence that directly relates to what we should be looking at right now. The way Mike has made his riches is to make other business owners aware of how to use these methods to save your business. Now is the time to double down on your skill sets and run towards the chaos. So strap yourself in, as you are in a real treat! And when you are done, be sure to check out our episodes with Moe Abbas and Abdo Riani to get more advice about sharing and monetizing your knowledge.
“If you're in business, those customers are your lifeline and any one customer can be a connector who’s going to bring back other people.” - Mike Long
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David Wood has an interesting background, from working with various businesses to coaching sessions with prisoners and wardens in maximum security prisons. He is using the same mechanism across the board, and by listening to today’s show, you’ll have the opportunity to get it for free. You’ll also hear us doing this in a role play fashion with a real scenario that we had in our business recently.
In this episode, we discuss ways to have difficult conversations with people that we know we need to speak with and how to approach having them, where you may be anxious or worked up about it ahead of time. If you follow this framework, then you really shouldn’t get too worked up, as it becomes a process, not a personal emotional thing. You’ll also realize that we are in our heads a lot, and anxiety pops up as we think of things that we consider to be reality, but this process will help to bring out a logical process where you’ll uncover what to do. It’ll work for your employees, your boss, your spouse, etc. and it’s a process about having tough conversations no matter who you are talking to. If this episode helps in ways to shift your own mindset around dealing with difficult situations, be sure to check out our episodes with Dr. Steve Rudens and David Allen as well.
“The last 25 years have been about the other stuff. It's about telling the truth….learning to actually like myself more has been the journey.” - David Wood
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We’re back and today we are chatting with Dan Clark, the CEO and Owner of Brain FM. You’ve probably heard us talking a lot about Brain FM recently, because we are generally nerding on it. This is a tool that plays music but it can help you relax, sleep, and meditate. By using this app you can get into whatever zone you are trying to get into, much quicker and easier.
On the show today, Dan lets us know how this works, and there’s some legit data behind this as we chat about all the cool neuroscience involved. On the other side of things, he’s a productivity hacker and we dig into some of his best ideas that you can incorporate, and great habits to make the most of your time no matter what you are doing. You’ll be able to learn how to use these tools to get into flow and focus. After you listen, be sure to check out our other episodes with Angelo Sisco and Christy Whitman, for more golden nuggets of wisdom in regards to business, focus, and health.
“It’s really about the psychological triggers taking effect. And if you can have psychological triggers and the science in combination you’re on a rocket and that’s what we are trying to equip people with” - Dan Clark
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On today’s show, we are chatting with Tommie Powers, a/k/a “Tommie Traffic”. Tommie specializes in scaling growth and revenue online with paid media and video advertising, is a natural at looking at patterns and data, and he has used this gift to be at the forefront of online opportunities over the years. We chat about his early days being an undercover nerd which got him into the NASA Space Grant Program, then later in life as he stumbled upon making money with Google ads.
We also talk about how he currently helps businesses with their creatives, how the current economy is affecting marketing costs, and why you want to take advantage of that, as well as how to reverse engineer successful campaigns without the use of blackhat tactics. This episode is stuffed with YouTube expertise, but if you’re craving more, go check out our conversations with Aaron Biblow, Triston Goodwin, and John Belcher.
“There’s a lot of people online, and they are looking for ways to either extend what they’re currently doing with this homebound situation or some people are looking to pivot.” - Tommie Powers
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Today we are talking to an absolute legend in the marketing world, Jay Abraham. Jay has not only written countless books but is the $21.7 billion dollar man and highest paid marketing consultant and has an uncanny ability to solve both complex and simple problems out there for business owners, whether it be underperforming businesses or employees transitioning to an entrepreneurial role. He has weathered four different recession type economies and with his expertise, you will get some actionable and tactical advice after listening to this episode.
Jay is a high-level thinker and thinks of businesses in ways that most people don’t. We talk about how to combine one business with another and make it more profitable for everyone involved, and with this interview, we manage to get very tactical as to how to approach these conversations and contact these people. During this quarantine time, we have been learning a lot of strategies and methods that we should have been doing anyway, so these methods we discuss lately are relevant even when you are not in quarantine. After you’ve listened, be sure to check out the past shows we’ve done with Dustin Mathews and Bob Serling to give you some additional intake on creating successful business relationships.
“If you have not just critical thinking, but consequential thinking and you understand probability and outcomes, then it’s not as daunting as you think. There’s only a finite number of scenarios that will probably happen” - Jay Abraham
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We’re still in lockdown, but fear not, we still have our flow! Today we have a legend in our marketing space, Russell Brunson. Not only is he well known for his product on how to make a potato gun, but he is also the founder of ClickFunnels. He wrote Expert Secrets, Dotcom Secrets and today we are going to hone in on his latest book, Traffic Secrets.
What we both love about this new book is it details the paradigm shifts that you need to go through to really understand traffic, and not just the ad networks but the business as a whole. Even though we had a briefer conversation than usual with Russell, this show is densely packed and we really got as much as we could in a shorter window. You’ll get to hear how he was able to get on The Profit show with Marcus Lemonis and you’ll also understand why you should be using these different traffic sources and what their uses are vs. the actual tactics, which you can get in his book, Traffic Secrets. Whether you are a novice or a veteran, we guarantee there are things you probably haven’t even thought about, and we cover this at a high level in today’s show. When you’re done, get some more funnel tactics from our talks with Dave Woodward and Nicholas Kusmich.
“My goal with this book was to get the whole conversation for all entrepreneurs to think differently about how to get traffic. There are so many ways to get traffic that aren't Facebook. Most are better, and nobody knows about it because they're all just focused on the one simple one that’s easy to do right now.” - Russell Brunson
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On today’s show, we are chatting with Perry Marshall, one of the most well-known business strategists in the world. Perry has a wealth of knowledge and discusses some of the key concepts from his books about evolution and the 80/20 rule. Listen in as we talk about how to pivot against the recent economical changes and make yourself stand out and move forward, by running towards the chaos.
We also talk about Perry’s upcoming traffic seminar and how Perry has broken down the massive complex of traffic sources into four quadrants. You will learn how you can reach your customers in each one of these sections, even if you are only great at one of them, while also seemingly appearing to be everywhere on the internet. After listening in, be sure to check out our previous episode where Perry goes into depth about the 80/20 principle as well as more advice about finding your success with traffic from Robert Farrington.
“Evolution is not survival of the fittest, it’s survival of the most cooperative and agile.” - Perry Marshall
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Today we are chatting with Ilana Wechsler who is a former data analyst, turned Pay Per Click marketing expert. An authority in both Google and Facebook advertising, she is the founder of boutique digital agency Green Arrow Digital which has managed over $30 million in Pay Per Click campaigns. Now, she runs an online training program, called Teach Traffic, where she teaches business owners exactly how to run profitable digital ad campaigns for themselves, without needing an agency.
On today’s show, Ilana details her paid ad puzzle technique and how to make the different pieces of your marketing puzzle work together. We talk about the best way to target without a high ad spend, and how to make retargeting work for you the right way as well as the use of in-market audiences. You’ll also hear why you shouldn’t be really focused on one traffic source, as they all have their place, and each source can feed each other. When you hear the way Ilana matches it out with her traffic puzzle, it makes so much sense. Now more than ever, ads prices are dropping, while internet usage is extremely higher, so this is the time to hone in on your traffic and dial in your puzzle.
After this episode, get more advice about how to run your ad traffic more effectively as well as get more visitors from Nate Broughton and Nicholas Kusmich
“If you can't find a way to make retargeting profitable in your business, then the answer is not more traffic. The answer is to change your offer, because clearly your offer is not resonating with your audience.” - Ilana Wechsler
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We’re back chatting with Rob Kosberg from Best Seller Publishing, another awesome friend who we connected with during our recent attendance at Rich Schefren’s event in Florida. Rob discusses his upbringing in an entrepreneurial family (which also included racing cars), how he survived through the real estate crash, and how advice from Dan Kennedy let him to publishing his first book way back in 2008 which led to major success as well as what Rob refers to as his “$1,000,000 mistake”.
We also chat about the right and wrong ways to self publish, what to include in your landing page, which types of content work well, how to get yourself on television, radio and yes - even podcasts! There’s plenty of wisdom in this show, and by the end, your wheels will be turning as you think about becoming an author yourself. After you have listened and realized the opportunity behind publishing, check out our chats with Chandler Bolt and Tucker Max for even more insight and vision into the world of self-publishing.
“You want the media, not just for the leads, you want the media for a way to warm up leads in the future.” - Rob Kosberg
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